| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Gary.3 |
Posted - 17 June 2012 : 15:54:10
Hi,
I have been issued with an IPA of £25 per month for 36 months - no problem with that except I would rather be clear of the whole BR procedure.
A family member has offered me the full amount of £900 if no further payments needed to be met. Given that the cost of collecting and administering such a small amount eery month would inevitably mean that little (or none) of the monthly payment would ever get to the creditors, would the OR be likely to accept this? |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| year 2029 |
Posted - 08 July 2012 : 09:24:16
Hi Gary,
Dug this out, that may be of interest to you.
What happens if I receive a lump sum while I am paying an IPA or IPO?
You may be asked to make a one-off payment from the lump sum to cover the amount left to pay on the IPA or IPO. This can happen even if you are discharged from bankruptcy.
The amount claimed will vary, depending on whether you are discharged when you receive the lump sum and the time left to run on the IPA or IPO.
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Views expressed are my own personal views, based on what has happened during my own BR process unless otherwise stated.
Professional advice should always be sought. |
| year 2029 |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 21:00:41
Hi gary,
Well put. Its the interpretation of the rules, but would cost too much to police every single person on their own merits, which would probably be open to 'abuse' as well.
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Views expressed are my own personal views, based on what has happened during my own BR process unless otherwise stated.
Professional advice should always be sought. |
| Gary.3 |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 20:47:25
Totally agree Niobe.
Problem is since the rules changed, it does act as a deterrent for people to increase their wages whether that's by not working at all (no way would I want to not work by the way or condone anyone who does this), not taking on overtime, not worrying about commission payments, not seeking for promotion/better paid job, etc.
I know a few people who are BR and while they readily accept the IPA and pay into one, absolutely refuse to agree to paid overtime as it is of no benefit to them personally. This can of course also affect the employer particularly if they are small as they can then end up with people who are not motivated to put in the extra hours or earn decent commissions. I have seen this at a previous company where 3 people had entered into BR. The employer had a choice as to whether to dismiss those people and risk being taken to a tribunal (which they would probably have lost) or employ additional staff which should not have been needed.
Perhaps a fairer system would allow someone with an IPA to keep a percentage of additional earnings (say for example 30%) - I think in most circumstances the BR, employer and the creditors would be better off.
Having spoken to several people who are either BR or in an IVA, it seems the higher earners are actually paying LESS than some lower earners as perhaps employers are able to assist in some adjustment to their salaries.
I also know of more than one person who despite earning £50k+ (which is considerably more than their outgoings) and so should pay a substantial IPA actually manages to avoid any payment whatsoever! Apparently this is all legal and above board but certainly isn't within the "spirit" of BR.
|
| year 2029 |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 10:07:50
Niobe, exactly.
The thing is, we all chose either IVA or Bankrutpcy to suit our own personal circumstances, so in effect, we you could argue that we all 'played' the system to our advantage!
If there'd only been one choice for us all to take, then that would've had to have been it.
Thats why we all took advice.
If there were a lot more options open to us, there'd be a lot more decisions to make, and each time, it would have been for an individual to to take advantage of what system was available to them for their benefit, or that of their family.
I'm not trying to be confrontational at all, just food for thought.
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Views expressed are my own personal views, based on what has happened during my own BR process unless otherwise stated.
Professional advice should always be sought. |
| Niobe |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 10:03:15
I'm sure we would all love to pay our debts back in full, after alll, that was our intention when we took the loans out. Circumstances have dictated otherwise for those of us who ate insolvent
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
|
| year 2029 |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 09:57:43
I never condoned anyone not taking a job to avoid an IPA!
I was merely pointing out extremes of how the rules are applied.
Like I said, don't all condemn me straight away!!
Remember, my last paragraph,
Quote 'Maybe IVA's and bankruptcy overall is unfair to the general public?
Maybe we should all pay back every single penny that we owe?
Afterall, it us ourselves that generated the debt?
Food for thought.
Dont all rush to condemn me staright away!' unquote.
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Views expressed are my own personal views, based on what has happened during my own BR process unless otherwise stated.
Professional advice should always be sought. |
| Skippy |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 09:52:36
Of course I don't want to see BR lasting 10 years!
As you seem to think it's fair that people can play the system and get out of paying back any of the money they borrowed I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I will NEVER condone anyone not taking a job to avoid an IPA.
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise that we cannot eat money.
Last IPA payment made on 28th June 2010 and I'm now looking forward to getting married in September 2012 - I'm proof that you can go BR and come out the other side. |
| year 2029 |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 09:19:55
Maybe we should go back to a BR lasting 10 years and handing your passport over?
The rules are there to be applied, and everyone will always try and do whats best for them. Thats human nature.
I'm suprised that the law doesn't give the OR the right to apply a zero rated IPA for 3 years, and totally understand Gary's reasoning for what he tried to do.
Afterall, it was a third party offering to pay his total IPA.
Third parties are able to pay for lots of things to release items from a bankrupts estate, and that is allowed by law.
Maybe IVA's and bankruptcy overall is unfair to the general public?
Maybe we should all pay back every single penny that we owe?
Afterall, it us ourselves that generated the debt?
Food for thought.
Dont all rush to condemn me staright away!
--------------
Views expressed are my own personal views, based on what has happened during my own BR process unless otherwise stated.
Professional advice should always be sought. |
| Skippy |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 08:44:10
I completely agree Debtinfo. It's always been a sore point with me that some people deliberately avoid working until they are discharged just so they can avoid paying an IPA.
Hopefully one day the law will be changed but as it's such a sensible idea I won't hold my breath!
View my blog at http://skippy13.blogs.iva.co.uk/
Only when the last tree has died, the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise that we cannot eat money.
Last IPA payment made on 28th June 2010 and I'm now looking forward to getting married in September 2012 - I'm proof that you can go BR and come out the other side. |
| Niobe |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 07:47:43
Well said debtinfo. It is an unfair system and I know there are people who do avoid getting a job until after they are discharged.
Having said that, at least Gary was trying to pay something back.
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
|
| debtinfo |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 06:44:36
its not so much that they try to maximise the IPA, after allthe DI could go down as well as up, but it is more that they have to be fair to everyone and some people will arrange (not saying you are) this so that they can avoid paying later on whe they know they will be coming into extra income in the near future.
Couple of other points, the solicitor collecting is paid on a percentage basis so they get the same if you pay it in one go or monthly. In any case if the amount if £900 the creditors wont see any money either way as the costs of the bankruptcy have first priority. The only way the creditors would get anything is if you stay subject to the IPA for the 3 years and your income increases later.
Finally as a general opinion year 2029, the system is slightly skewed, it is wrong that if you avoid a job for 12 months you dont have to pay anything, but if you have a job you end up paying for 3 years.In my opinion 3 years is not an unreasonable time to pay for and they should change the law so everyone has to declare income and pay if able for a set 3 year period from the bankruptcy date regardless of their current situation. That way it would be fairer to all and you would have to be really determined (ie avoidwork for 3 years) to avoid paying |
| Niobe |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 06:30:55
Year 2029, I am aware that the figures add up to £900. My point was that the OR could take this money and still insist on an IPA as Gary will have £25 a month disposable income which could be paid over to the creditors.
Sorry you didn't get to do it though Gary - perhaps your DI will go down before the three years are up.
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
|
| year 2029 |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 01:05:57
Thats a shame Gary. I was rooting for you!!
I can empthise with you about the extra work.
At least if you go under the £20 you'll not have to pay anything. Seems a lot of hassle for the extra £5! And not feeling like you're fully released from BR.
Niobe....£25x36months=900
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Views expressed are my own personal views, based on what has happened during my own BR process unless otherwise stated.
Professional advice should always be sought. |
| Gary.3 |
Posted - 21 June 2012 : 00:50:50
No luck infortunately.
The OR THINKS that I might get a pay rise during the course of the IPA (highly unlikely - I already earn more than minimum wage and it's only these employees who have seen any significant increase over the past two years, and no plans for increases next year either).
Still, looking at it again as some of the allowances increase each year then by January,I will probably be back under the £20 disposable income limit anyway!
It just seems ridiculous that the creditors are unlikely to see any of this money by the time the solicitors have added on their charges to handle such a small amount.
I was however planning to do some additional work on a self-employed basis next year, but there seems no point if the OR will simply take all this money away from me anyway!
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| Niobe |
Posted - 20 June 2012 : 22:40:27
I can understand why he wants to do it but I can also understand that the OR wants to maximise income for the creditors.
My thoughts are (and it is purely my opinion) that even if this money were paid over there is still in excess of £20 a month to be paid to the BR.
It's not like an IVA where a full and final offer can be made.
Ascend may you find no resistance
Know that you made such a difference
All you leave behind will live to the end
The cycle of suffering goes on
But memories of you stay strong
Someday I too will fly and find you again
|
