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| mark.tl |
Posted - 29 September 2009 : 14:15:54
Hi, i am currently juggling my payments around between various creditors including my main residence while i struggle with cashflow short term.
My dilema is whether to pay the next 2 months mortgage on my residence which already has very large arrears on?
BOS have told me that if i dont meet the full mortgage payment tomorrow and ongoing then they will apply for an order.
my dilema is that if i pay this month ongoing then i will do so at the expense of everything else.
My question is: If i dont pay inorder to save 1-3 months payments while they apply for court date for suspended possession order i assume. Thereby allowing me to get through my cash crisis stage over the next 2 months. Can i then confidently goto court and expect the judge to grant that i keep the house as long as i then maintain what i can afford and a minumum of the monthly interest payment each month?
Sorry for the length of the question but any advice welcomed to help me make the decision whether to starve and pay mortgage or eat well and wait and see!
Thanks,
Mark |
| 9 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Housing |
Posted - 30 September 2009 : 17:33:24
Hi RHB,
It does look a complex and serious situation - no doubt in that - If I had some more info I would be better placed to offer my comments - like all of us whether we are BR (like me) or not - we all have our life experiences and degrees of professionalism from our lives and those can be invaluable - if only to share and show we are not alone.
I have to say, if you had said to me two years ago I will be BR - I would have almost laughed in your face - strange how life turns out...Now I am BR, I look upon life and the daily events with very different eyes.
I really feel for Mark and thousands of others - and have had enough of my own problems this year.
If I were able to give more detailed suggestions, I would, and if he lived anywhere close to me (Plymouth, Devon), I would be pleased to go that step further and attend court - but not sure wheere he does live.
Given the failed promises to the lender, BOS are going to be gunning - but with some good defence and an understanding judge... However, it may only be postponing a situation that is inevitable.
I have never seen so many people (including myself) in dire straights - this government has a lot to answer for. (Maybe that will be edited!!)
Regards to all posters, Richard
"There are no problems - only solutions..." |
| RHB |
Posted - 30 September 2009 : 14:20:47
I was just interested that's all, I know that you can't provide definitive answers. |
| Housing |
Posted - 30 September 2009 : 08:28:56
Hello RHB
I see the magnitude of the problem. It is very difficylt to advise or comment with "cyber" advice.
I have looked at the principles - it is a large arrear - but it is a very large mortgage - not sure of what term is left or age of Mark - a number of imponderables - I said £200 plus to illustrate a possible outcome, it may be offbeam.
I know the Government does not want repos to increase as there is an election oround the corner - it MAY be a situation that could be fixed in the immediate term and then see what happens. In one of his postings he refers to gettingnthrough to the spring as if there may be something more favourable in the offing.
It is very stressful for all of us who are, or are about to become bankrupt. I was giving my experience of how the court case would be handled by the lenders agent and what the DJ may say - but as you point out (and so did I) the VBOS may have their set ideas about what they want and if they plead that and are listened to by the DJ, then that will be a more serious route in terms of repossession.
Cheers, Richard
"There are no problems - only solutions..." |
| RHB |
Posted - 30 September 2009 : 07:23:04
Richard, how will the fact that he has broken a grrement s before stack up thougH? pLUS, IF HE is on interest only then the lender will want to know how he will repay te rest of it? 30,000 at 200 a month will take 15 years or so to clear so would you expect the \bos to want more, given hhe is on interest only? |
| Housing |
Posted - 29 September 2009 : 22:54:59
Mark, 
Just been thinking again - this may assist:
Many lenders will agree terms with the borrower for a suspended possession order before the hearing. I have done this in an interview room outside the DJ chambers!
However, the lender may have a set idea of what they will accept which has nothing to do with either a borrower's ability to pay or the relevant case law.
For example, a lender may say that the arrears "have to be cleared" within 12 months. This can lead to borrowers agreeing to payments they cannot maintain. Borrowers should never agree to pay more than they can afford - the terms of the order will be breached and the lender will apply for an eviction date.
There are some positives and negatives popping out in my mind. If I were advising you on the day I would fight in your corner strongly... I am not going yo be thrtr though - I would also have to do it pro bono as I am on benefits now - that in itself would NOT be a problem for me I have to say.
have a look at the Shelter website and even give them a call as an org, they are very good - I was a friend of one of their directors, by that was long ago..So I cannot call him up today!!
Please come back and I will look at the situation - do you have a court date as yet? I had assumed that you do not, post when you do have and before - I look at this site several times EVERY day so will see it, Again, Regardsm Richard Parry
"There are no problems - only solutions..." |
| Housing |
Posted - 29 September 2009 : 22:40:32
Hi Mark,
So sorry to hear about your problems - particularly with being FSA registered, BR would be a problem. (I was amongst other things an estate agent!!) I could not ptractice as an estate agent whilst BR (Not that I would want to I have to say!)
I am reading that the BOS have not yet pursued you in the CC? So therefore, you will not have a CCJ against you as yet?
They will be wanting to get what they can and as fast as they can I suspect with a £30K arrear. The mortgage is a large one (sorry that is an obvious statement!) Do you think that you could afford to pay the current interest only payments plus, say £200 a month? I am trying to second guess what the lender will be seeking from the DJ at the hearing.
In my view (I am not a lawyer - I studied law as a postfraduate and have as good a knowledge as your high street hack) To make a suspended possession order the judge has to be satisfied that the borrower can pay at least the monthly instalments due under the mortgage plus an additional monthly sum to clear the outstanding instalments, or arrears, over a "reasonable" period.
The judge will want to know about your income as a borrower and expenditure so that he/she can decide what is fair in the circumstances. He.she will need to strike a balance between what you as borrower can afford and the lender's entitlement to get their money back. A bit of the luck of the draw with DJs from my experoence!
Most DJs used to say that up to five years was a reasonable period in which to clear the arrears.
However, a 1996 case called Cheltenham & Gloucester v Norgan decided that a reasonable period can mean up to the end of the mortgage term.
The judge, the lender's representative or an adviser may refer to the Norgan minimum - this is the amount that would have to be paid every month, in addition to the monthly instalment, to clear the arrears by the end of the mortgage. This is the absolute minimum payment that a court can allow when granting a suspended possession order. (This may be worth looking into).
From my experience (and I say this with good faith and again emphasise that |I am not a solicitor) judges will usually take a borrower at their word if they say they can afford them.
Most lenders will try to convince the judge that a reasonable period is somewhere between 12 months and four years. On that basis, you should be OK.
Are you a confident person in this type of situation? Are you able to articulate with feeling? As someone who works in the FSA business, I suspect that you are (Are you an IFA?)
If you are "connected" within the world of FSAs do you know anyone who canm assist with some advice on re-scheduling the loan?
We talked about BR - clearly if they made you BR, that is it so far as your FSA registration is concerned - I do not know if a CC CCJ would debar you from employment - although I have to say I do not know for absolute certainty and suggest a few questuions within your profession. Is it your business? Are you a partner/director? The CCJ will be recirded as part of a public record as you know - I do not know for sure whether that is sufficient a sanction to "mess up" your situation there and then. Ask some of your financial services friends - anan if necessary
I do wish you well - where are you in the UK 0 I am in Plymouth 0 is that any good - I would travel a short distance - as a BR myself, funds are limited for me too and I have no work at present.
Please come back - there a few more quwestions to open up your circumstances - some others may chip on too
Regards, Richard Parry
If you were all to agree on the day at the CC then you could get a second chance the terms of the order are binding so if you default, the matter comes back to the DJ and the outcome then may not be a welcoming one!
"There are no problems - only solutions..." |
| mark.tl |
Posted - 29 September 2009 : 21:21:10
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond.
The mortgage is with Bank of Scotland, and has no other secured loans onit; i have no dependants either but i do want to keep the house and i cant afford to go bankrupt because im FSA registered!
Presumably if BOS do eventually get there hands onit then they will sell it quick for 200K leaving a 430k loan and then its bankruptcy time and loss of earning potential?
If i could stave them off with the legal process until xmas or ecen spring and then start paying the 30K arrears down along very slowly with the monthly (interest only) payment then that would be my best option.
I have broken previous arrangements on 2 occassions and had a debt counciller come and see me but BOS refused my shorterm offer resulting in my last change to pay just the interest from tomorrow.
Can you give me any more idea based on the info i have given you as to how likely it is that i will be able to keep the house by negotiating either a further deal with BOS once the SPO is granted or with the court itself?
My arreads are around 30K on a 410 ish mortgage. If the lender or the court were expecting my monthly payment of 1680 plus several hundred pounds, then again im in trouble! So does your expereience tell you that if i go the legal route then:
1.) i'll save interest payments this year probably
2.) i'll agree a minimal repayment of arrears (200ish per month)
Finally, once they have the SPO will it stand indefinetely while i keep up payments or does it only last a period of time so that if i fell beck into trouble in the future; they would have to reaply?
Thanks again in anticipation of your advice.
Regards,
Mark
quote:
Originally posted by Housing
Hello Mark,
see some of my earlier posts on re-possession - they may assist.
From what you have said, I assume that the mortgage is with BOS? Do you have any other secured loans against the property?
Have you got dependent children? If so, the local council may be able to assist you - I would contact them anyway to see if they can assist with some practical advice on a mortgage rescue plan maybe.
District Judges do not like giving outright possession orders so you will, in all probability find that when it gets to court (and that can be a few months from initial application from the lenders solicitor). The max time a DJ can award is 56 days, but he/she can suspend the order on terms - those terms could be that you repay the mortgage plus something towards the arrears -
You could ask to transfer the mortgage to interst only (you may have already done that).
It is a difficult position to be in and I feel for you. I have attended hundreds of possession hearings for the lender, for the landlorsd and for tenants so have seen all arguements.
It depends if you feel the property is worth "saving"... How attached are you to it as a family? Would you really miss the property if it was taken by the lender in a court action?
If you want to put up a defence, you have lots of time as I am sure you know. When the lender gets a hearing date, you will probably be into November maybe even December - to then get a SPO - say the maximum is given (2 months - Jan - Feb 2010)
Then a bailiffs appointment say another 4 weeks - into the Spring - thats the timescale.
If you want assistance - act now - approach the council as a potentially homeless family (if there are children or medical grounds). They have a statutory duty to provide advice andf assistance - does depend on your domestic situation as to how far they can go to assist.
If you do go to court - go along half an hour before and see the duty legal adviser - could be CAB, Shelter, a local solicitor or the council - whoever they are FREE on the day and will go to see the DJ (all very informal in the DJs chambers - no wigs or gowns these days!!
The lender will have an agency rep - may be a solicitor, but probably not - so again, no need to feel worried - the DJ is there to save a situation in todays political climate
Post back and I am happy to share my experience and whatever happens - I wish you all the best, Richard
"There are no problems - only solutions..."
|
| Housing |
Posted - 29 September 2009 : 20:08:27
Hello Mark,
see some of my earlier posts on re-possession - they may assist.
From what you have said, I assume that the mortgage is with BOS? Do you have any other secured loans against the property?
Have you got dependent children? If so, the local council may be able to assist you - I would contact them anyway to see if they can assist with some practical advice on a mortgage rescue plan maybe.
District Judges do not like giving outright possession orders so you will, in all probability find that when it gets to court (and that can be a few months from initial application from the lenders solicitor). The max time a DJ can award is 56 days, but he/she can suspend the order on terms - those terms could be that you repay the mortgage plus something towards the arrears -
You could ask to transfer the mortgage to interst only (you may have already done that).
It is a difficult position to be in and I feel for you. I have attended hundreds of possession hearings for the lender, for the landlorsd and for tenants so have seen all arguements.
It depends if you feel the property is worth "saving"... How attached are you to it as a family? Would you really miss the property if it was taken by the lender in a court action?
If you want to put up a defence, you have lots of time as I am sure you know. When the lender gets a hearing date, you will probably be into November maybe even December - to then get a SPO - say the maximum is given (2 months - Jan - Feb 2010)
Then a bailiffs appointment say another 4 weeks - into the Spring - thats the timescale.
If you want assistance - act now - approach the council as a potentially homeless family (if there are children or medical grounds). They have a statutory duty to provide advice andf assistance - does depend on your domestic situation as to how far they can go to assist.
If you do go to court - go along half an hour before and see the duty legal adviser - could be CAB, Shelter, a local solicitor or the council - whoever they are FREE on the day and will go to see the DJ (all very informal in the DJs chambers - no wigs or gowns these days!!
The lender will have an agency rep - may be a solicitor, but probably not - so again, no need to feel worried - the DJ is there to save a situation in todays political climate
Post back and I am happy to share my experience and whatever happens - I wish you all the best, Richard
"There are no problems - only solutions..." |
| RHB |
Posted - 29 September 2009 : 17:17:29
I wouldn't expect anything tbh. Can you afford to pay the mortgage & arrears, if not then best to let the property go under bankruptcy proceedings. |
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